I got my first MSTing flame ever!!!! Enjoy!!

In some correspondence to Michael Bilica (The West Virginian), who was probably inquiring about further chapters of Minako: Warrior, Princess, Sidekick?!?!, Nightman had this to say about me:


Michael Bilica wrote:

> Because it's being MiSTed. I want to know when Mike & the 'Bots will
> stop hurting.
>

Ah, yes, the MiSTing--by a moron who apparently doesn't watch either
show and gripes about all the stuff that's actually legit.  Like "Since
when does Rei have visions???" (since her first appearance) or "How can
singing be wordless???" (like Enya. Or the dirges played in the
background on Xena--which Lucy Lawless sings herself sometimes).

Needless to say, Michael immediately forwarded this to me. I, in turn, provided my own response:


Dear Nightman:

        Well, I see that you have finally gotten word about my MSTing. And, I also see that you believe that I am a moron who has not seen either show. Well, I am here to tell you that you are wrong. I have watched both shows. While I have only watched a few episodes of Xena, I have watched many, many episodes of Sailor Moon.
        From what I have seen in Sailor Moon, Minako is *not* such a long-winded poet. And, the word "shit" does not exist in Ancient Greece around the time of Xena, because that is an _Anglo-Saxon_ word.
        Which is to say, of course I'm not perfect. I will admit that I did not fully understand the "wordless song" bit, forgetting that a song can be *hummed*, among other things. And, of course, I can't notice every *little* thing in the show, like mystical visions, because I am not really in tune to spiritual things.
        But enough about that. I see that you are bitter because your work is being MSTed. Well, I'll tell you why I decided to MST it.

However, I must commend you on the fact that your story *is* genuinely interesting, in the way that Stephen Ratliff's stories are also interesting. You are a very creative individual, and I hope that you can at least take the MSTing as constructive criticism. I do not want you to consider the MSTing as an ill-tempered flame. In fact, I hope that you use the criticism to improve your writing! All you need are some really innovative plotlines, and you'll have a great story!

So, in the future, at least get a sense of humour! I'm not trying to harm you, and I am not an *moron*. This correspondence and any further messages will be prominently displayed on my page.

Cordially,
 

Seth C. Triggs



Well, folks...you'd think that that was enough...but there's more!!! My text is in light pink.

Seth C. Triggs wrote:
Dear Nightman:

"Dear" ???

        Well, I see that you have finally gotten word about my MSTing.
Actually I have heard about it since you got 2 parts out.

And, I also see that you believe that I am a moron who has not seen either
show. Well, I am here to tell you that you are wrong. I have watched
both shows. While I have only watched a few episodes of Xena, I have
watched many, many episodes of Sailor Moon.
>
As this story is set in Xena's universe, a greater knowledge of Xena is
probably more important than that of Sailor Moon.
>
From what I have seen in Sailor Moon, Minako is *not* such a
long-winded poet. And, the word "shit" does not exist in Ancient
>
No, but Gabrielle is and the Minako of this 'fic is a fusion of the two
characters ... and as for 'shit,' since the story is all transpiring in
Greek, every term is translated into the English equivalent, including
Mercury's attack into "mist" spray.  Though the Xenaverse does try to
use more archaic terms like "harlot" or "son of a bacchae" it does not
do so exclusively.
>
Greece around the time of Xena, because that is an _Anglo-Saxon_ word.
>
And tomatoes come from North America but are tossed at people on Xena,
yet another of the anachronisms Xena uses.
>
Which is to say, of course I'm not perfect. I will admit that
>
Actually, you have made a LOT of comments that indicate things have
really gone over your head. I was considering compiling a line-by-line
list of these, just for your edification.
>
But enough about that. I see that you are bitter because your work is
>
> No, actually, I got over that. However, you must admit that calling
> someone's writing so painful that it's an "adequate substitute for a
> concrete enema" is inevitably going to be taken as a personal insult.
>
being MSTed. Well, I'll tell you why I decided to MST it.
> >
1. To get Minako into the _Xena_ universe required a run-of-the-mill,
cheesy plot contrivance (the fall into the abyss)

Of course you are aware that the story grew out of the Sailor Moon
equivalent of GRIT and not as a genuine story at all? That the prologue
was nothing but a courtesy patch-job and that the first 4 or 5 parts
were each written in 5 minutes and intended as posts of the day?

4. While the story is actually well-written, the premise is bad (time
switching crossovers rarely work).

Actually, I've had over three dozen compliments on a fresh and original
way of crossing over two such disparate shows.

5. Frankly, all of your action is very predictable. I was certain from
about Chapter 1 what was going to eventually happen, especially the part
where Artemis returned to Minako and she regained her memory.

Of course it is. So is the action on both SM & Xena. You seem to fail to
understand that I'm deliberately aping aspects of both shows. And I do
believe that the plot twists I did use were good ones. For example, I
don't know of ANY fanfic that has ever had the original Queen Serenity
show up as an actual, active character.

However, I must commend you on the fact that your story *is* genuinely
interesting, in hte way that Stephen Ratliff's stories are also
interesting. You are a very creative individual, and I hope that you can
at least take the MSTing as constructive criticism. I do not want you
>
You should understand that come across as a bitter, acidic person who is
NOT offering his work as a creative comment, unlike OTHER MiSTers who
have pointedly prefaced their works with comments to that effect. At
least, in the text story itself. I got my copy off of 'Somewhere Over
the Rainbow' not your personal page so if you have any caveats there,
they were unseen by me.

innovative plotlines, and you'll have a great story!
>
Actually the 'Xena as Saturn not Mars' plot twist brougth kudos from a
top SM fanfic writer I respect greatly.
>
> >
So, in the future, at least get a sense of humour! I'm not trying to
harm you, and I am not an *moron*. This correspondence and any further
messages will be prominently displayed on my page.

Cordially,

Seth C. Triggs

 --

Nightman
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mredding/

Well, I saw the light. I realized that I had made several mistakes, and I did not want Nightman to be angry. Seeking to rectify the situation in some way, I sent the following message:



Subject: Compromise?
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:23:25 -0800
From: "Seth C. Triggs" <trigsc41@buffalostate.edu>
Organization: Buffalo State College
To: Nightman <nightman@provide.net>,Tim McLees <tenchi@eagle.cc.ukans.edu>
CC: seth_triggs@hotmail.com

Dear Nightman:

        First of all, I address all of my e-mail messages as I would a standard letter. I consider it to be common politeness.
        Before you pull out another set of Cliff's Notes to defend your story, there is something I would like to address! I don't understand why you couldn't contact me *directly* earlier if you had a problem with the MSTing. My e-mail address sits at the top of each part, and if you search for my name, my website would come up, which also includes mailto: links.
        This would lead me to believe that you let these problems build up so that you could really "show" me. I admire your craftiness, and I think you should become a lawyer. (Please excuse my sarcasm).

        Well, now that the little unpleasantry is out of the way, I would sincerely like to admit that I am not an expert on either Xena or Sailor Moon. I don't watch much TV recently, either.
        In the first riff that you mentioned, about Rei's mystic visions, I had made an error. Of course she has mystic visions. Unfortunately, i have a very sarcastic, logic-based pattern of thought, so when Luna or Rei sense the Negaverse, I think, "Well, duh! Those are the only villains on the show!". I pass it off as mere common sense.
        And, to restate my point on "wordless songs", I erred there as well, which was nothing more than a mistake on my part. In fact, all of the music that I enjoy is instrumental jazz, so obviously there are wordless songs!!
        Well, I have learned from you that I should research a little bit more, so I will make sure that I watch and review more episodes of _Xena_. (_Sailor Moon_ is cancelled in my area, so I can no longer watch it.)
        And, I do want to thank you for pointing out that I was wrong a few times, and corrections will be made ASAP.
        But, most importantly, I forgot to prominently display that the MSTing is not intended to be a personal insult or mean-spirited flame. In fact, I do want to say that your story is very well written, and I have no doubts about your ability to write a great story. (In fact, your plot is better than many of the actual shows' plots.)
        Therefore, I will add such a disclaimer to the first part of the MSting. I had usually saved such disclaimers for the final part, but I was not sure what the final part would be, so I decided to hold off until the story had ended.
        Now, I would appreciate in the future that you contact me DIRECTLY in the future, so that if you have a problem, it can be taken care of!!! E-mailing other people with complaints and insults about me will not solve the problem, because *I* will not know that you are having a problem!!
        If you desire an audience with me, my invitation still stands. You can either e-mail me or go to:
http://venus.beseen.com/chat/rooms/b/2878/

I can be found there at around 6PM EST (5 PM Central), on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.

        Again, I am very sorry for the errors I have made, but I can admit that I was wrong. Hopefully, there will be no further unpleasant exchanges.

Sincerely,
 

Seth C. Triggs
 

P.S. The site which you referred to as "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" is actually _Tenchi's Vault of Anime MSTings_. "Over the Rainbow" is the index page for Tenchi's site. Hope I was able to clear that up for you.
:)



Well, I did hope that this would help. I'll be the first to admit that I'm certainly not an expert on Sailor Moon and Xena, and I did MST from the average person's viewpoint. However, I did have a lingerng fear that I still wrote with a caustic attitude in the above letter. I feared that Nightman was going to be angrier. I was not optimistic. I was right. Again, my text is in light pink.

Subject: Re: Compromise?
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:01:57 -0500
From: Nightman <nightman@provide.net>
Organization: Ikamori Academy
To: trigsc41@BUFFALOSTATE.EDU
CC: Tim McLees <tenchi@eagle.cc.ukans.edu>, seth_triggs@hotmail.com
References: 1

Seth C. Triggs wrote:

First of all, I almost deleted your email without reading it as I really
don't have any desire to come to some kind of 'understanding' with you.
However, I decided to clarify my position a bit.

        Before you pull out another set of Cliff's Notes to defend your story,
there is something I would like to address! I don't understand why you
couldn't contact me *directly* earlier if you had a problem with the
MSTing. My e-mail address sits at the top of each part, and if you

You seem to be under the misconception that I am actively mad at you.
This is not so. After being quite insulted by the overall mean-spirited
approach to it (such as the reference to my writing being so painful
that it was an adequate subsititue for a concrete enema, and your
continued attempt to make ecchi inferences where there were none,
especially in the earlier chapters) I decided that your own ignorance as
you MiSTed my story was going to make you look far worse than you would
make me and that it wasn't worth my time to gripe about it. I believe I
was correct in regard to this.

that you could really "show" me. I admire your craftiness, and I think
you should become a lawyer. (Please excuse my sarcasm).

That is not sarcasm. That is being accusatory and flat-out nasty. My
previous comment about possibly providing you with a long list pointing
out your gaffes was to underscore to you how far out onto a lake covered
with thin ice you'd already walked; it was not meant as some kind of
trap of wittiness.

    Well, I have learned from you that I should research a little bit more,
so I will make sure that I watch and review more episodes of _Xena_.
(_Sailor Moon_ is cancelled in my area, so I can no longer watch it.)
 And, I do want to thank you for pointing out that I was wrong a few
times, and corrections will be made ASAP.

While researching more is a good idea, I don't think you should bother
with corrections _now_. Those points I mentioned were just a couple
quick examples of you showing your general ignorance to the world. You
have really not gotten the point *many* times in your MiST and fixing
just a few gaffes isn't going to change anything. You still come off as
a condescending buffoon who doesn't know half of what he thinks he does
(that's not a flame--that's the harsh truth). Your dumb comments have
already made me, and I'm sure many others, laugh at you quite hard. I
think you have made maybe 3 genuinely funny references in your MiST. If
I were you, I'd be dreadfully embarassed.

   But, most importantly, I forgot to prominently display that the MSTing
is not intended to be a personal insult or mean-spirited flame. In fact,
I do want to say that your story is very well written, and I have no
doubts about your ability to write a great story. (In fact, your plot

You *should* put this atop the first part, as I've seen done in the
other MiSTs I've read. Particularly when your approach has you wading in
with a flame thrower--despite your previous statments that this was not
the intention this totally seems to me to be exactly what it was. One
BIG flame.

     Now, I would appreciate in the future that you contact me DIRECTLY in
the future, so that if you have a problem, it can be taken care of!!!

> E-mailing other people with complaints and insults about me will not
> solve the problem, because *I* will not know that you are having a
> problem!!

Excuse me, I did not start up an email complaint to someone else. As I
said before, I decided your MiST was not worth my time being angry
about. See following:

-----
Subject: Minako: Warrior, Princess, Sidekick
Date:    Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:39:42 -0500
From:    Michael Bilica <BILICA@prodigy.net>
Organization:
         Prodigy_Internet
To:      nightman@provide.net

    When does this god-awful fanfic end once and for all?!

-The West Virginian

-----
...to which I replied asking him "If the fanfic is so god-awful, why do you care?" to which he replied that it was so he could see the MiST of it and you've got the following reply as I saw you quoting from it on your web page. SO, to be clear here: I didn't start up some campaign behind your back. I was contentedly ignoring you.

>         If you desire an audience with me, my invitation still stands.

An audience? Wow, I didn't know you were royalty! <That's sarcasm by the way>.

I have nothing further to say to you.
 

Nightman



OUCH! I guess he told me off! :P Apparently, I'm a condescending buffoon who doesn't know half of what I think I know!! So, I guess he thinks I think I know it all. Well, I don't know it all and have never claimed to. I don't think I condescended to him, because he certainly is a smarter person than I am, apparently. I guess he thought that I was condescending when I asked if he desired an audience, which means, would he want me to hear his complaint so that I could try to fix it. Well, I sent an invitation to chat, too. Here's what happened:

Subject: Re: An invitation to chat
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:46:34 -0500
From: Nightman <nightman@provide.net>
Organization: Ikamori Academy
To: trigsc41@BUFFALOSTATE.EDU
References: 1

Sorry I have other plans this evening. Besides I think I've clearly said everything I need to.

Oh, you might amend the full text of that other guy's message to your so-called flame page.


So, what have we learned today?
(feel free to hum your favourite lesson-of-the-day music here)

Always add disclaimers to the MSTings. Also, be prepared for the possibility of angry people.

This sad flamewar has been a learning experience for me. Not only did I learn that I was a buffoon, who is ignorant to the world, I also learned that some people can't really fathom trying to laugh. I wanted to apologize to Nightman, but he has nothing further to say to me. And you know what? I'm glad.

Well, Nightman, I am embarrassed. I'm embarrassed because you're meaner and smarter than me (as if I actually *try* to be mean). I think that I can use this as an impetus to tone down my comments in my MSTings.
I am embarrassed because I did not make you laugh, and I honestly tried to.
I'm very sorry that you feel this way, Nightman. You are a creative writer, so keep writing! Of course, I won't be calling you unkind names, but hey, that's life! :)

Oh, and this "condescending buffon" is at the top of his class in college. This "condescending buffoon" is considered an expert cartographer. This "condescending buffoon" who is 'ignorant to the world' writes a regular socio-political column on both his website and a local newspaper. This "condescending buffoon" operates a home business producing professional-quality graphics and maps.

You see, Nightman, MSTing is just a hobby for me. And just because I don't know every little fact about every TV show like you do doesn't make me 'ignorant'. I have never, in my life, seen someone act so childishly over a harmless satire! You know what they say...You can be young only once, but you can stay immature indefinetely!

So, the next time you feel the need to call someone a "condescending buffoon", "ignorant to the world", or a "moron", why don't you do your homework first? And I have nothing further to say to YOU. Hmmph.



What do you think? Drop me a line, or even sign my guestbook!!

Go to the Minako: Warrior, Princess, Sidekick?!?! MSTing and see what the fuss is about!

Or, you might want to check out the un-MSTed version here.

Back to Lefty's MSTings